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Wednesday, September 23, 2009

SYNDICATED COLUMN: Swine

Why Are Insurers Blocking H1N1 Treatment Prescriptions?

I got swine flu. Five days later, I was at death's door—because my evil insurance company wouldn't honor my doctor's prescription. Memo to future revolutionaries: if you require a firing squad for the executives of the Health Insurance Plan (HIP) of New York, I'm handy with a rifle.

I wasn't worried at first. A little sneezing, slightly achy joints. I figured it was my usual bout of fall allergies. There's usually nothing to do but suffer. But I felt worse each day: achier, more congested, stiffer, headache, fevers. The third night was bad. I went to bed under a pile of comforters, chattering uncontrollably. Then nightsweats. I checked my temperature: 103.7. When your temperature looks like a classic rock station, it's time to see the doctor.

I've known my general practitioner for decades. So I pay out-of-pocket to see him even though he's not on HIP's list of plan-approved doctors. Hey, what do you expect for $749.01 a month?

My ordeal with the insurance company began when I went to fill my prescription for Tamiflu, an antiviral medication that is widely considered the standard treatment for swine (and other types of) flu.

"Your insurance isn't going to cover this," the pharmacist said. "You would need a pre-approval from your doctor."

"But that's a prescription," I said, motioning to the white slip of paper in her hand. For younger readers, I come from a generation when a doctor's prescription was all you needed to get a medication.

"It's not going to work," she said, slowing her speech for emphasis. "This drug is for people who have the flu."

"Um...I have the flu."

"You have the flu?" She looked shocked.

Because Tamiflu or another drug called Relenza can significantly reduce flu symptoms if taken less than 48 hours after the onset of symptoms, people have been hoarding and taking anti-viral drugs prophylactically—especially in New York City. Given what was about to happen to me, I admire the hoarders. Smart.

I called my doctor. No answer; left a message. Waited. I called back. Got his assistant, who patched me through. I explained the situation. "Put her on," my doctor said.

I offered my cellphone to the pharmacist. She recoiled in horror. "You have the flu! I'm not using your phone!" She believed I had the flu enough to shriek like a wee girl. So why did she need to confirm it with my doctor?

I asked my doctor to call the pharmacy. "Right away," he promised.

Wait. Wait. Wait more.

I called back. "Wait. Are you already at the pharmacy?" he asked. "You want me to call where?"

At this point I began to lose my mind.

An hour passed after my doctor and pharmacist exchanged the required bureaucratic pleasantries. She returned to the counter. "I'm sorry, Mr. Rall," she said, "but your doctor is going to have to call HIP to get their advance approval. It will take him quite a bit of time...it's complicated, especially for doctors."

Especially for doctors?

Remember, this isn't heroin. It's Tamiflu. The street value of this stuff isn't that great, and it's a really, really bum trip. My brain may be baked from a week of triple-digit fevers, but I want to know:

Why the hell would an insurer make it more difficult to get the main drug prescribed to treat the number-one most-talked-about disease in America, one that's a probable pandemic?

Shouldn't HIP and other insurers be shoveling these yellow and white capsules out the door, trying to keep their own costs down by getting as many flu victims to recover as quickly as possible?

What the hell is a "pre-approval"? If a doctor prescribes a drug, why isn't that good enough for the health insurance company?

Oh, and why doesn't the federal government make Tamiflu available free? Hey, President Obama: What part of "pandemic" do you not understand?

Another hour went by. My pharmacist's phone rang. She winked at me. "Everything should be fine now," she said.

Everything was not fine.

I was getting sicker and sicker, just sitting there. My head reeled; an invisible C-clamp tightened behind each ear. I could barely breathe. It felt as though there were shards of glass stuck in my lungs. Every breath hurt. I barely had enough energy to stand up and take a step. My fingers were bluish-gray (an early sign that breakdown of the cardio-pulmonary system is imminent.) I coughed and caught a ball of phlegm in a napkin. It was soaked in blood.

Four hours and 12 phone calls after I arrived at the pharmacy, I went home empty-handed. HIP's approval still hadn't appeared in the pharmacy's computer system.

When swine flu appeared in the U.S. this spring, the government prompted hysteria, predicted the deaths of as many as 90,000 Americans. Now they're going to the opposite extreme, downplaying a genuine threat by trying to ignore it. They're no longer even tracking new cases. And Obama Administration health officials are now selling an official line—for most people, swine flu symptoms are no worse than those of any other random flu—that isn't quite accurate.

For example, while it's true that children and the elderly are in high-risk categories for swine flu, "40-year-olds are the group most at risk of developing life-threatening complications from H1N1," according to Canadian researchers cited by the Montreal Gazette. (Centralized data collection is a big advantage of a national healthcare system.)

Another difference is that swine flu is much more likely to cause viral pneumonia, the most common life-threatening complication of flu. It is not just another flu.

Lord knows, it's not like any other flu I've had. I spent that night coughing up blood and downing aspirins to try to keep the fever down. By way of comparison, I've been thrown down two flights of stairs—and swine flu is worse. I had pneumonia last year; it sucked hard, but it was a joke next to this.

I went back to the pharmacy in the morning. Still nothing. I called HIP. Unsurprisingly, their voice recognition voicemail tree had some trouble understanding my voice by this time. God forbid they should hire someone in India to actually answer the phone. Finally—success. Sort of.

"The pharmacy needs to enter the approval code," the HIP lady explained. She read me a long number. I gave it to the pharmacist. She typed it into her computer. "No. Still nothing," she said.

She didn't look surprised.

"Would you like me to call HIP?" the pharmacist asked.

"I thought you'd never ask," I replied.

Half an hour, an overnight and about two pints of phlegmy blood later, I had my Tamiflu in hand. "$87.12," demanded the pharmacist.

I asked her how much it would have been out-of-pocket, without insurance.

"$112," she said.

Losing that night has diminished the effectiveness of the drug. It took three days more of feeling like death just to advance to the stage of feeling like crap. Now I'm settling into a nice, comfortable state of wretched.

I just read that a recent ABC News poll says that 32 percent of Americans think the current healthcare system is just peachy. Let's hope they don't catch swine flu this winter.

(Ted Rall, President of the Association of American Editorial Cartoonists, is author of the books "To Afghanistan and Back" and "Silk Road to Ruin.")

COPYRIGHT 2009 TED RALL

60 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

When will it end?

Maybe we should hope they do get swine flu.

then again we don't know what the government has in store for us.

Maybe they gave you a stronger dose and didn't want to help. Who knows.

No one really truly trusts the systems anymore.

Best of luck.

Would the pharmacist have given you the stuff if you paid yourself?

9/23/09 1:36 PM  
Blogger Aggie Dude said...

"Why Are Insurers Blocking H1N1 Treatment Prescriptions?"

Because they can. And it's not going to change. The 32% is probably the same 32% who thinks Sarah Palin would make a good president.

Look, we're f*cked, Ted, and there's no amount of facts, evidence, details or anything else that will make us not f*cked.

It just doesn't matter. We should all just sit perfectly still, close our eyes and meditate until the end comes.

9/23/09 3:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ted,

Yeah that's a good question. If you had shown up with just the prescription and paid for it yourself would they have given it to you?

I'm really feel for you. I hope that we do get this insurance reform with the public option. But sadly I doubt it.

9/23/09 3:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ted,

One faithful member of your fan club is very glad you have gone from feeling like death to feeling wretched.

I hope you feel better. Your columns are very important to me.

Take care,
SH

9/23/09 3:48 PM  
Blogger Grouchy said...

AMERICA IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH!

HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE OUR HEALTH-CARE SYSTEM?

YOU MUST BE A SOCIALIST!

OR A FASCIST...

EITHER ONE.

OR BOTH.

9/23/09 5:24 PM  
Blogger Ryan said...

But universal health care would lead to wasteful bureaucracy.


You didn't think to ask how much money you would actually be saving after the first two hours? Yet again, Ted Rall risks his life to bring us the full story, and to save himself $25.

9/23/09 5:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excuse me, but why THE FUCK didn't you just pay for it out-of-pocket initially? I've done that in the past and after they've sorted out the insurance bullshit, I'd get a refund for the difference. In any case, you'd only have been out $25 if it wasn't covered. For your life? WTF?

9/23/09 5:45 PM  
Blogger Ted Rall said...

Two reasons: sickness and idiocy.

I was half out of my mind when I got to the pharmacy. I couldn't think straight. I was in a reflexive mode: get it done.

Normally, there's a big difference between the plan payment and the out-of-pocket expense ($15 vs. $400) and frankly, I'm flat broke. I've lost tons of client newspapers, haven't seen a book royalty since 2007 and speaking gigs have really dried up. Plus no illustration work. My income is about 70% lower than in 2000. And I got laid off from my editor job in April.

When you're in broke mode, you just don't think of paying top dollar as an option. Obviously, once I heard the difference was so little, I was pissed at myself for not asking.

Of course, the pharmacist didn't think to volunteer the information either.

9/23/09 6:09 PM  
Blogger Ted Rall said...

This is an aspect of the healthcare crisis no one ever talks about: sickness makes you fucking crazy. You can barely walk, much less think strategically about shit like co-pays. And healthcare companies love it.

9/23/09 6:10 PM  
Blogger Ted Rall said...

...kind of like funeral home directors. Fucking vampires.

9/23/09 6:11 PM  
Anonymous badnewswade said...

Bastards! That's an insane amount of cash for a prescription.

Know how much it is in the UK? $11.76 (thanks currency converter).

Of course the right wing hate the NHS but there's nothing they can do about it... it's a bit how they'd like to abolish Social Security in the US but it's just tooo popular!

Get well soon, Ted Rall!

9/23/09 7:37 PM  
Blogger Michael said...

One factual error (frankly, a major one): the CDC is, in fact, still tracking new cases.

Please don't downplay all they are doing to deal with this pandemic. Make fun of, clearly, but the insurance companies should be bearing the brunt of that, since they are the ones (through ridiculous policies and massive brib..err..campaign contributions) making it impossible to get care. Or health system reform.


http://cdc.gov/h1n1flu/

9/23/09 8:17 PM  
Anonymous Thomas Daulton said...

I'm with Grouchy: you see, you're Ted Rall, we all know you hate America, you insulted Our Boys Over There at some point in the past, therefore everything you say about healthcare must be false. Keep the Gubmint's dirty hands off my Medicare!!

Also Michael Moore is fat, which just goes to show.

(Seriously, though, glad you're on the mend!!)

9/23/09 10:02 PM  
Blogger HemlockMan said...

Fuck the RepubliKKKans. Fuck the Blue Dog DemoKKKrats.

9/23/09 11:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ted,
We've heard the horror stories. Know that it doesn't matter a bit to the people at accounts receivable. Next rule to be created: Pre-Pre-Pre Approval. Two week's notice before you die, but that's an old joke.
Whatever your state of mind and body during your experience at the pharmacist the other day, you got to find out exactly how far your 'support system' would go in trying to KILL you. Snd you know, this IS true, if you did die, they'd keep billing your 'estate' well into 2016 and assign a collection agency to hound anyone unfortunate enough to share your surname, whether related or not, anywhere in the USA.

9/23/09 11:30 PM  
Blogger Aggie Dude said...

Yeah, all you Anony-mouses putting this on Ted's head are deliberately missing the freakin' point. Even with $800 a month in Insurance (that's, $9,600 a year), Ted has to WAIT a *DAY* while he is sick, AND PAY MONEY AT ALL to get . . . .TAMIFLU!!!!!. . .for god's sake, this is NOT Morphine!

AND HE *HAS* INSURANCE. This is how bad it is for someone who *HAS* insurance costing *$9,600* a year. IF ONE MILLION American tax payers paid $9,600 a year to a universal health care system, that would be 960 BILLION DOLLARS (!!!!!!!!!!!!). Nearly a TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR would mean a system in which NOBODY EVER HAD TO PAY for money going to the doctor OR the hospital.

What the HELL are any of you THINKING!?!?!?

People claim Canadians have to wait in long lines....TED WAITED A FREAKIN' DAY!!!!!!! to get TAMIFLU!!!!!!!!!

People claim the French are drowning in taxes.....yet we are drowning in health care insurance costs!!!!.......AND....WE STILL HAVE TO PAY!!!!!!! AND WAIT.

What the HELL is wrong with you people that you can't just GET THIS in your stupid, retarded little minds.

Ted, I am sorry for the outburst, but this is just over the top!

9/23/09 11:54 PM  
Anonymous Shady Pines said...

Wow can't wait until the federal government runs your healthcare. Just imagine how efficient it will be.

OK seriously, I never get my prescriptions through my insurance. It's easier to just pay for it. I know, paying for something is a novel concept. You statist all seem to be so dependent on someone else taking care of you I can understand why you're all broke.

9/24/09 12:26 AM  
Blogger Cod said...

As an Australian, you've left me feeling all patriotic and stuff. I get less stuffing around than that getting my private insurer to pay for quite optional physiotherapy sessions. For a prescription you just need your Medicare* card.

* That's what the compulsory public option that covers everyone is called down here. It is so popular that even far-right politicians do not dare so much as approach it with evil thoughts.

9/24/09 1:18 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ted,


Why do you even pay that much a month for insurance? Since it's obvious they won't cover anything, if I could afford that kind of sundry I'd just put it into savings.


What I really think is that the companies are poisoning us to make us sick so they can sell us fake, ineffective "Cures" that don't work but prolong death over a lifetime.



However, you have my sympathy with dealing with insurance companies. I can tell you horror stories, and I can tell "Funny" as in get someone to smell your flower and light his shirt with a match kind of funny...


A few years ago, I worked in an eyewear place making lenses. Loved that job. Anyways, over a period of a few weeks I heard a number of shrieking, crazy people and the salesladies who were often young girls would run into the break room (or my lab!) and wipe tears and calm down. After the third or fourth I asked "What the F*ck is going on" since my old-fashioned "Male" in me was thinking there was someone needing an ass-kicking...


It was "That d-mn fake insurance policy"...


There was this thing running on late night cable where people subscribed to "Vision" insurance and paid either $20 or $10 a month and then after a year they could go in and get a free eye exam and pair of glasses. Do the MATH, MORONS!!!! $120 or $240 you likely can't walk out the door with an exam and the cheapest, most shoddy option at the worst quality place during its best sale. And that's assuming they were all loss, not profit. Except that they were a con. The guy ran to the bahamas on the 11th month... And we dealt with people who'd come in, see the doctor, pick out their glasses, I'd make them and then we'd look up the insurance and got the "Fraud" thing on the computer and they'd scream and scream and SCREAM at the poor young girls...


Not only was the guy behind it not caught but I later found out he paid a FINE, 1/10th the money earned, and then was selling the same insurance again!!! I found this out working at a later place... Except this time the cards just provided $5 or $10 in benefits (versus a $110/$240 pay-in) of both the glasses and exam. So we get the same "Suckers" pulling out their cards, screaming and screaming when they find out how little it helps, and this time the operation is LEGAL so there's nothing to do!!!

9/24/09 2:28 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aggie Dude: WAY too many 'you' statements!

9/24/09 4:19 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

@ Aggie Dude:

I am with you in spirit (single-payer now!), but not in arithmetic.

One million times 9,600 is 9.6 billion, not 960 billion.

D Mills
State College PA

9/24/09 5:35 AM  
Anonymous Russell said...

"IF ONE MILLION American tax payers paid $9,600 a year to a universal health care system, that would be 960 BILLION DOLLARS"

Aggie Dude, next time whip out your calculator before you bust out the ALL CAPS.

9/24/09 7:07 AM  
Blogger Grouchy said...

Wow can't wait until the federal government runs your healthcare [sic]. Just imagine how efficient it will be.

No one is talking about government running health care. The discussion is about government running health insurance. And it is quite efficient. In a single payer system, you get your drugs on your doctor's orders.

I know, paying for something is a novel concept. You statist [sic] all seem to be so dependent on someone else taking care of you I can understand why you're all broke.

Get a brain, moran. Ted pays for his "insurance." Expecting them to uphold their contractual obligation is hardly being dependent.

(But I do think Ted needs to drop his company after receiving such shitty, bureaucratic and rationed service.)

9/24/09 8:50 AM  
Blogger Grouchy said...

Bastards! That's an insane amount of cash for a prescription.

Yep. That's another thing single payer (or even a "robust public option") would eliminate.

I know these drug companies like to talk about the costs of "development," but they don't like to talk about the fact that their profit margins are higher than almost any other industry...

...we are drowning in health care insurance costs!

Private health insurance is destroying America (seriously). Isn't there some way we can declare "war" on this threat?

9/24/09 9:15 AM  
Blogger Aggie Dude said...

that should have been. . .one hundred million Americans. . .forgive me for the error there.

9/24/09 12:00 PM  
Anonymous Ken said...

"You statist all seem to be so dependent on someone else taking care of you I can understand why you're all broke."

This is funny. I assume you have private insurance, right? You do realize, that with private insurance, you're relying on "someone else taking care of you"? Private insurance "relies" on a group of people paying into a plan, so that when you get sick, there is a huge pot of money to cover the bill. If they only used what you paid in, then you'd have an argument. But your (our) private system is no different in theory than a public one. The difference is that with a public one, the pot of money is larger, and the people deciding who gets to use that pot of money aren't taking profits from it. But if you and I have the same insurance plan, we are relying on each other to cover our backs (after the insurance company takes their cut, of course).

9/24/09 1:45 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aggie Dude,

Not that I necessarily disagree with the general thrust of your rant, but "IF ONE MILLION American tax payers paid $9,600 a year", that comes to $9.6 Billion, not $960 Billion.

9/24/09 2:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As usual Shady, you miss the point.

Its not like his insurance could GET worse, so whatever the Federal government does is bound to be an improvement.

9/24/09 5:21 PM  
Blogger Susan Stark said...

Wow can't wait until the federal government runs your healthcare. Just imagine how efficient it will be.

Government already runs Medicare and Medicaid. It has for decades. If it can run health care for elderly and poor people (who are generally sicker than average), then it can run it for everyone.

OK seriously, I never get my prescriptions through my insurance. It's easier to just pay for it.

Then why the fuck are you even paying for insurance? Your insurance premium is supposed to pay for prescriptions. I'm sorry, Shady Pines, but this does not give me a very good opinion of your intelligence. Ted already paid for the Tamiflu through his 800 mutherfuckin' dollar insurance premium. He shouldn't have to pay a red cent more. And he damn near died waiting for it.

9/24/09 8:19 PM  
Blogger Aggie Dude said...

Yeah Anon, I screwed up my math. Oh well.

9/24/09 9:09 PM  
Blogger Joseph said...

With your experience Ted, I would say ditch your insurance program and save your money. Insurance works best is for something catastrophic; for everyday prescriptions,however, its ALWAYS cheaper to pay out of pocket just in terms of avoiding the hassle and the reduction in your premiums.

$5,000 deductible is how I roll. Everything else I pay for out of pocket.

9/25/09 4:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I asked if they would have given him the stuff if he paid directly, I was serious. I have seen numerous cases where you still could not have gotten anything without the insurance okay. It was not a matter of cost. I was not implying anything never blame the victim. I just was emphasizing that control is too much. Sorry to open this can of canard.

Clearly the system is not there to provide healthcare. It was a big demand and they have exploited it to the fullest as they have every other such system. When the system degrades and then slips into complete dysfunction then worsens then gets offensive etc. they play it for all its worth. Or blame acorn. And people go along with it. There are always progressives and they always have regressives fighting for the wrong thing. It is truly the story of many people's lives here.

I just met someone who works for bc/bs you wouldn't believe how removed from reality they were. It caused a riot at a funeral.

So again I didnt mean in anyway that paying for it (which he did several times) was the point. I meant the control is the issue.

Best of luck and get better!

9/25/09 10:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Susan, I love it when you talk dirty.

9/25/09 1:49 PM  
Anonymous Shady Pines said...

Susan,
I have health insurance to cover me if something catastrophic happens to me. I get any prescriptions I need through Wal Mart mail prescription service. The Wal Mart mail prescription service charges me about $10 for 30 days of medication. It's cheaper because the mail center is in Texas, not California.

Your precious federal government is going to make purchasing health insurance mandatory. According to the Senate bill, not purchasing health insurance can be a misdemeanor with the possibility or one year in jail and/or $25,000 fine.

9/26/09 12:02 AM  
Anonymous Grouchy said...

Your precious federal government is going to make purchasing health insurance mandatory.

The Federal government is not mine. It's bought and paid for by the insurance companies. If they do mandate the purchase of private insurance (a horrible idea), it'll be to the glee of the insurance industry.

According to the Senate bill, not purchasing health insurance can be a misdemeanor with the possibility or one year in jail and/or $25,000 fine.

Huh?

9/26/09 10:17 AM  
Blogger Aggie Dude said...

Anon 10:49 - That's exactly how I took your comment as well, not about cost but about whether you could even get meds without it.

You're right about the system being exploited. This is what happens when you take A NEED and commercialize it. This happens in countries where the IMF has forced privatization of water supplies.

It's criminal. Period. It's criminal.

9/26/09 10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry about the swine flu, the falling income, the loss of the papers, the editorial gig, no illustration assignments, et al. It's not what you deserve.

Try to stay positive. The animations are brilliant, and the year of dangerous sex book is going to be a big seller, everyone can feel it in their bones.

9/26/09 3:18 PM  
Anonymous Shady Pines said...

Here you go Grouchy:

Ensign receives handwritten confirmation
This doesn't happen often enough.

Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."

The note was a follow-up to Ensign's questioning at the markup.

http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0909/Ensign_receives_handwritten_confirmation_.html?showall

9/27/09 12:30 AM  
Blogger Susan Stark said...

Your precious federal government is going to make purchasing health insurance mandatory. According to the Senate bill, not purchasing health insurance can be a misdemeanor with the possibility or one year in jail and/or $25,000 fine.

I don't support the Obama so-called health bill. I support universal health care. Health "insurance" does not provide health care, as Ted's example clearly demonstrates. Universal health care is what is provided in France, UK, Sweden etc. And don't try to tell me that these systems don't work. For most of my life I lived within a hour's driving distance of the Canadian border, and I can assure you that we were not mobbed by sick Canadians coming across the border because of "long waits" for health care.

Medicare For All. Yes We Can.

9/27/09 12:51 AM  
Blogger Grouchy said...

According to the Senate bill, not purchasing health insurance can be a misdemeanor with the possibility or one year in jail and/or $25,000 fine.

False. That's not in the (shitty) Senate bill.

Shady, are you stupid or intellectually dishonest? You cannot assert that something is written into a bill by referring to a letter between two bureaucrats.

And the note doesn't say anything either, only possibly some willful innuendo on the part of those who want to muddy the waters of the conversation. They know folks like you are quite ready to "read between the lines."

Go back and re-read (or read for the 1st time) the note. It only reiterates tax evasion law. It doesn't specify any penalty for not paying the health insurance fine, only that tax invasion MAY have a penalty of UP TO $25,000 or NOT MORE than one year in jail.

It's too soon to know what shitty bill will pass. But I'm pretty sure it'll be shitty, and not single payer.

9/27/09 11:47 AM  
Anonymous Shady Pines said...

The IRS will be the one to enforce the purchase of health insurance.

9/27/09 11:31 PM  
Anonymous Grouchy said...

I don't support the Obama so-called health bill. I support universal health care. Health "insurance" does not provide health care, as Ted's example clearly demonstrates. Universal health care is what is provided in France, UK, Sweden etc.

You have to wonder at someone attacking Ted Rall's readers because they assume we support the shitty Senate bill.*

I think it's pretty clear that Ted and his readers understand how bad the shitty Senate bill* is (and how bad the general direction that health care "reform" is headed is).

If the general population was as well informed as Ted's readers are, I daresay the Democrats wouldn't even be trying to pull this bullshit...

------

*the Senate bill should always be referred to as the "shitty Senate bill."

9/28/09 12:44 AM  
Blogger Greg Harvey said...

For anyone who's wondering if government-run health insurance works, let me tell you. I live in France. The government has run health insurance since the year dot. Doctors are private. Hospitals are private. The system is like the USA with one critical exception: healthcare insurers are *not* private (or at least, not fully).

You go see any doctor you like, you pay and they swipe your "carte vitale" (spelling may be wrong) - a few days later the government refunds you 70% of the cost. Ditto for prescriptions when you get to the pharmacy.

Treatment and drug costs are fixed by the government at an agreed rate. And if you are worried about having only 70% coverage (typical doctor's bill is about $40 and prescription maybe $20, but as Ted demonstrates, it can be a lot more for some drugs) then you sign up for something called a Mutuel. This is "top up" insurance for the other 30%. Some are private, some are public, but they are a *lot* cheaper than full private healthcare and they never quibble your claim, because the government keeps a close eye on them.

I also lived in the UK until recently where the entire system is still government run. It has its problems, but I tell you, I wouldn't switch it for the USA system in a million years! (Though the French partially-private system is better.)

9/28/09 9:04 AM  
Blogger Greg Harvey said...

Btw, @Susan Stark:
Universal health care is what is provided in France

Actually, no. As I described above, in France you actually get insurance provided by the state (and 70% of it). It works very well.

In the UK, however, you DO get universal health care and it works well too. Though not quite as well, IMHO.

9/28/09 9:58 AM  
Blogger Aggie Dude said...

My fiance had to go to the ER last night because of a botched dental job that will result in the need for a root canal. The pain was so overwhelming we couldn't wait.

According to George W. Bush, that's why we can say all americans have access to health care.

The first ER we went to was packed with sick people, and I was sure we'd get swine flu if we stayed there. We drove to another hospital (because luckily I have a vehicle, not something everyone has). we waited an hour to be seen, and then she laid in a hospital bed as the pain got worse for an hour waiting for the doctor.

We could hear the doctor across the room in a conversation with a rather less-than-educated couple who were complaining about the cost of meds and trying to figure out their medicaid. The doctor didn't have a clue about the medicaid stuff because, well, he's a doctor.

During the wait, they got all kinds of information from both of us, because that's more important than simply helping us.

In the end, we got precisely what we could have told them at the beginning we wanted. . . after the temperature checks, the blood pressure checks, the paperwork. Tylenol 3 and Motrin.....brilliant.

A LOT of unnecessariness there, to say nothing about the hour of a doctor's time to listen to a patient bitch about medicaid. I wonder how much all that costs?

Our system is stupid, and we can't fix it. I suppose we don't deserve to.

The bill for the ER visit will be between $500 and $1,000.

9/28/09 10:43 AM  
Blogger Grouchy said...

Aggie, sorry to hear about your experience.

You know, everyone has stories likes that. It's insane. And it's insane that because a moron minority are willing to parade as tools of the insurance "industry,*" we're not going to fix this situation.

Our country is broken. The political system is beyond repair.

As Tom Tomorrow said a few months ago,

[I]f Democrats do manage to blow this opportunity [to reform health care], at this particular moment in time, then there’s no longer any room for debate: apart from providing a half-assed bulwark against the ever-increasing lunacy of the right, they’re entirely useless.


------
*A real industry actually produces something. The insurance "industry" does nothing but suck blood.

9/28/09 5:56 PM  
Blogger Susan Stark said...

Greg Harvey,

When I say universal health care, I mean:

1) Care that is provided for all, regardless of ability to pay,

2) Is not denied to anyone, regardless of condition of health,

3) Is not paid for out of the patient's personal expense (except perhaps a token amount of money, say five dollars or less).

If France meets all of these conditions, then it has universal health care. It makes no difference if the hospitals and clinics are private or public. From what your saying, France does not quite have UHC, but much, much closer to it that the United States. If you have emergency care here in the US without insurance, you can get stuck with a hospital bill that is more than what you make in a year. That's a fact.

9/28/09 7:20 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are amazing Grouchy! You are not only the English Teacher for this site, but now you are the spokesperson. Incredible for someone who earns <$30k in his 50's.

9/29/09 12:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last night I was really hungry. I went to the store and had to stand in line and wait my turn for my food. Not only that I had to pay for my food. Un fricken believable. I want my free government food. Come on Barry I want my free food!!!!! Waaaaa f'in whaaaaaaaaaa

9/29/09 12:47 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Aggie,
What exactly were you expecting? The ER would welcome you in on a red carpet? Dr's and nurses at your beck and call; on duty waiting just for you. Here is a shocker, you are not the most important person in the world. Sometimes you have to wait in line behind those less fortunate then you. Try a little humility for once in your life. And be grateful all she needed at the moment was a pain killer.

9/29/09 12:53 AM  
Blogger Greg Harvey said...

Yes - your summation is correct. France does not truly have UHC - it fails on point (3). But I don't think whether you have out-and-out UHC is the core issue.

I'm going to digress, but:

What's really interesting about the current healthcare debate in the US is the number of people (many from low income backgrounds) who actually don't WANT social security. The 9/12 stuff was a real eye-opener.

It seems to me (and I am of American parentage so have some insight) there are a few quirks in the attitude of a large number of normal Americans which will make it difficult for the US to have a strong social security system while they remain.

Firstly, there's the whole concept that private enterprise does a better job than government can, in EVERYTHING.

In practice this does not work (like any pure system, cracks start to show). There are some things private companies simply CANNOT be trusted with, because the need to be profitable simply does not marry with the service needing to be provided, regardless of cost, to maintain key services, human dignity and rights. The UK has demonstrated this numerous times with the services that were "privatised" during the Thatcher years.

Fortunately Thatcher only ever managed to privatise industries that are not critical to people's immediate health and well-being, but still. Railways, energy, telecomms, all a disaster with prices rising above inflation, service levels dropping since they went private and with the railways such negligence with infrastructure maintenance there were several fatal rail accidents.

Secondly, there's the myth that people in America and the UK pay less tax. The problem with the US is too many people are so obsessed with a low tax burden that they just don't realise it's a false economy. The UK has a similar problem because it is socially half way between countries like Sweden and the US in terms of our outlooks. We want to have a strong social security system, we also want to pay low taxes.

In contrast, Europeans generally accept if you want good public services, you need to pay very high (typically around 50%) tax.

The Brits don't like that idea, so we pay probably 30% tax, higher than in the US, but as a result, balancing the books on what is a strong social security system is a thorn in every UK government's side.

So we end up with a bunch of "stealth taxes", for example the Council Tax, where you pay thousands of $$$ a year for living in a house. Money goes to local government to pay for things like emergency services, street cleaners, etc. That's just one - I could go on!

My point is in my experience, moving from country to country, the whole "tax burden" thing is a non-argument. What you don't pay in income tax you WILL pay somewhere else in every single western government. The costs are fairly equal because trade is global, manufacture is global and the price list for all these services is GLOBAL. Where you are, in a global marketplace, all the western countries cost about the same to run per capita and the average person pays approximately the same amount, just in different ways and not always called "tax".

Finally, and what it really comes down to (the difference between the US and Europe right now) is this:

Who do you trust to look after you in your old age? The government or Mr Burns?

You might say neither, but there are no other options. For most Europeans, the government is the lesser of two evils - always will be. At least we can vote for (or against) them. What staggers me is the number of normal Americans who seem to think Mr Burns is nicer than Mr Obama.

Ultimately, whether it's UHC, state-organised health insurance, whatever. I don't care. They all work pretty well. As long as the person calling the shots on MY healthcare, MY pension, MY protection if I lose my job, etc. is NOT Mr Burns. As long as it's someone I can at least vote against, I'm much more comfortable with that.

9/29/09 7:37 AM  
Blogger Aggie Dude said...

Anon, don't be an ass. In fact that's not what she needed. She had an infection that was starting to spread; the kind of tooth nerve infection that actually spreads to the brain and kills people who don't have access (read: money) a dentist for a needed root canal operation. Luckily she does and they identified the problem -something the ER would not have done. Given a person without access to a dentist, they would lie in pain in the ER until it infected their brain and killed them.

This HAS happened and DOES HAPPEN regularly in the US...because we simply don't deserve to be healthy unless we've substantially wealthy.
I got what I expected, that's not the point. The point is a personal example of two people who DO HAVE insurance and still get screwed by our stupid system.

Beyond just the insanity of the US system, a failure to provide health care access to all is a threat to us all. Example: on the Mexican Border people steal boxes of antibiotic shots and pills and hoard them as a way to treat sickness in their family. When someone gets ill, they take one shot/pill and then stop. The purpose for taking the entire dosage is to prevent resistant strains and keep our antibiotics effective.

People without proper education and health care access do what is necessary to survive, and in fact make things worse for us all.

The same argument can be used with regard to environmental quality. Abject poverty is a threat to environmental sustainability because people will slash/burn natural resources to survive in the short term, even if it means crippling the ecosystem long term.

The point, is far greater than what I expected at the ER.

9/29/09 10:21 AM  
Blogger Angelo said...

I just skip anonymous posts. They bore me because no single, discernible identity stands behind them.

9/29/09 1:27 PM  
Blogger Angelo said...

Another part of healthcare no one talks about is the pain rating system.

The amount of pain you feel might have nothing to do with whether or not you are having an emergency. A medical professional should decide if you are having an emergency by monitoring your vital signs, not asking what your pain level is on a scale of 1-10.

9/29/09 1:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i absolutely hate dealing with pharmacies. they lose things, misfill prescriptions, are usually surly as hell, with no apologies and no accountability.

Ted, you should have coughed, sneezed and hocked your blood phlegm all over the store, driving out the potential customers, until they filled the scrip that instant.

9/29/09 3:06 PM  
Blogger Grouchy said...

I just skip anonymous posts. They bore me because no single, discernible identity stands behind them.

They're trolls, mostly. But actually, it's possible they're always from the same troll, and he/she does it anonymously so he/she can slink away without any accountability.

It's pretty easy to pick a "name" and stick with it. To post anonymously means you're not really interested in engaging in an exchange.

9/29/09 8:12 PM  
Anonymous Grouchy said...

An insightful post, Greg.

But you're missing a key element when you say this:

Firstly, there's the whole concept that private enterprise does a better job than government can, in EVERYTHING.

Private enterprise does do a better job--it does a better job of allowing a minority to accumulate wealth. For some, that's the only thing that matters. That government run (or even partially government run) health insurance is unquestionable better in terms of public health and cost is undeniable. But it infringes on somebody's "freedom" to make a buck, so it's not allowed.

Meanwhile, everybody else enjoys the "freedom" to suffer illnesses, injuries and deaths that sane societies won't tolerate.

Who do you trust to look after you in your old age? The government or Mr Burns?

You might say neither, but there are no other options. For most Europeans, the government is the lesser of two evils - always will be. At least we can vote for (or against) them.


Excellent way to put that. Some of trolls on this site like to slink around and call us "statists." Your point here perfectly explains what these idiots refuse to acknowledge.

9/30/09 12:25 AM  
Blogger Angelo said...

I want to thank greg harvey for bringing in the one thing that is completely missing from the healthcare non-debate:

Europe!

whether you are watching cable news, or NPR you will never hear about the functioning healthcare systems in France, UK and some nordic countries.
Actually, the only people who ever mention it are right wing radio personalities who tell us about how French women are popping because they can't be seen by a doctor to have a baby.

9/30/09 11:42 AM  
Anonymous Not Anon So Grouchy Will Reply said...

It's pretty easy to pick a "name" and stick with it. To post anonymously means you're not really interested in engaging in an exchange.
Or maybe they are bored with childish exchanges about grammar.

9/30/09 11:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any comments/cartoons on Alan Grayson?

:-)))

peace.

fletch

10/11/09 4:58 AM  

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