Cartoon for August 29, 2009
Obama, like LBJ, prepares to squander all his political capital on an unwinnable war.
Labels: afghanistan
posted by Ted Rall at
12:01 AM
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27 Comments:
EXACTLY ! Been going on for years, nay, decades now.
Well maybe then US citizens could go to Afghanistan after the Chinese claim the US as their own in repayment of their debt.
What credibility?
Excuse me, I meant "what political capital"?
what a spectacle.
We'll be fine, there's going to be no collapse. We'll just experience a steadily decreasing standard of living.
I agree aggie. All we can hope for is that the global empire will collapse before the state itself. Then, our standard of living might just go up. (See UK)
I think you pointed this out before.
Aggie Dude,
I always wanted to use US dollars as insulation. Mugabie dollars are not that great. haha!
Yeah, I believe the global empire is going to collapse before the state. I don't think "the state" in the US will ever collapse. This is why I laugh hysterically whenever I think about "anti-statist" so-called libertarians in the US....they just don't get that the state in the US is extremely strong. So strong, in fact, that many people don't even see it there, and attribute it's impacts to other things.
I don't foresee centralized authority in the US ever collapsing as it did in the Soviet Union and other examples of national implosion.
And yes, when we stop spending filthy amounts of money on a global empire for the sake of our corporations, we'll experience a shift in values that focuses on our quality of life, which will improve (though not necessarily in a material way).
Aggie Dude,
One of the things about the USSR was the external influences in it and the younger generations influenced by foreign propaganda.
So much so that if you read people talking about their knowledge of the West they reject everything the USSR taught them. Such as segregation in the US. Or the Great Depression. They thought it was just Soviet propaganda.
Frankly... big mistake.
Aggie, I think the only "libertarians" who don't agree that the state in the US is too strong are LINOs, or, to use the mainstream term, Republicans.
I agree somewhat Incitatus, but moreso to the point they argue for a reduction of government role only in the places that are visible. They don't recognize that the reason we have it so good is BECAUSE of a strong state, not IN SPITE of it.
It's hilarious to me that people work so tirelessly to become slaves to others.
It's hilarious to me that people work so tirelessly to become slaves to the government.
Anon 12:08. I am a citizen of the United States and have a RIGHT as a citizen to participate in decision making (however small that may be given I'm one of millions) through voting, referendum, active participation and representation.
I am a participant as a citizen, not a slave.
Juxtapose that with the way corporations work. Corporations have the LEGAL RIGHT to not disclose their "private" information, to make decisions without the input of individuals who may be impacted by the results of those choices (such as the location of a walmart store in proximity to other things.
There is a fundamental difference between the private and public spheres, in that the access point for the public sphere is citizenship, and the access for the private sphere is money.
I am not a slave to my government because I am, in essence, a part of it. That is what the Constitution meant by a government "of the people, by the people and for the people."
Anyone.....ANYONE...who places the interests of privately held corporations over the interests of citizens represented by their citizen-constructed government (i.e. liberal democratic societies) is BY DEFINITION a person who is fighting AGAINST democracy.
Of course, they will disagree, and of course they will use all the soundbites, lies and propaganda they've been fed to defend their position. But in the end they are choosing corporate fascism over civil society and democracy.
It's funny that ever since the 18th Century, we've essentially still been battling between the liberals and the Monarchists. The only difference that bears pointing out is that the ONLY difference between a government and a multinational corporation is that access to government is a citizen right. Corporations are NOT democratic, but given enough power, they essentially act as nation-states, and have potentially MORE influence on the lives of people than do government.
To say you prefer that is to acknowledge being a fascist, supporting feudal tyranny, and being anti-democratic...period.
Are those camo pants or drab pajamas?
Aggie,
When 40%-60% of someone's income goes to the state, they are a slave.
A corporation cannot tax, arrest or regulate you. The government can, and you have no say. Try not paying your taxes and let me know haw that goes.
Aggie Dude, your last post is spot on. Repeatedly I've tried to make this argument to the "anti-statist" corporate apologists on this site.
Take Incitatus, who, if I'm not mistaken, works in a lower management position in a corporation. Why does he love his master so much? Even though I don't know which country he lives in, I daresay the corporation he slaves for controls his life much more than any government intervention...
A corporation cannot tax, arrest or regulate you.
WTF? Yes it can. If it achieves high levels of political influence, it most certainly can. They do it literally all the time. Our revolution was actually against the East India Tea Company, not the British -- the colonies rejected their tea monopoly, made possible by a massive tax break that made their tea so cheap that it was actually cheaper to buy from them than it was to smuggle it. The British government sent troops to back the company at its behest. Saying a corporation can’t arrest you is a bit like saying I can’t sue you: judges and lawyers do that.
We should be teaching basic concepts of agency in elementary school.
When 40%-60% of someone's income goes to the state, they are a slave.
A person is a slave when they cannot collectively bargain or control the conditions of their work, or when they work "at the will" of their employer.
You might also call a person a slave when their employer steals the surplus value their labor creates.
Kibo mode activated.
Quoth Grouchy:
Take Incitatus, who, if I'm not mistaken, works in a lower management position in a corporation.
You're mistaken. I'm not in management.
Why does he love his master so much?
If by "love his master" you mean "like his job", well, I like my job (most of the times), because I find it interesting, socially useful and because it pays me (reasonably) well. It doesn't, of course, mean I necessarily agree with everything that upper (or lower) management decides. Nor that I bow to my corporate "master", who, for all I care, are retired little old ladies in Minnesota.
Even though I don't know which country he lives in, I daresay the corporation he slaves for controls his life much more than any government intervention...
Hint: read up on the comments, and you'll figure out where I live. Let's see, the Big Bad Company I work for doesn't care if I smoke anywhere outside its premises, doesn't care if I talk on the cell phone while driving, or if smoke banned herbs in some night club, so I guess I'd have to say, no, it doesn't control my life more than my local government, based on the few things I came up with a minute of thinking.
Hmm. That's interesting, Incitatus.
You're lucky your employer doesn't force you to take drug tests. It's all the rage here in the U.S.
And I guess they also don't tell you what time you have to come in, and how long you have to stay. Here again, that's common in the U.S. But you, I guess, are free to structure your time any way you like as long as you stay productive.
And I guess you have complete freedom to do your job anyway you see fit as long as the results are good--no stupid bureaucratic hoops to jump through.
And your employer doesn't monitor your workspace with video cameras or read your emails...
Need I go on?
You've got a great job, I'd say. I'd also say that if what I described above is your situation, you're enjoying a rare corporate work climate.
But enough of this. The forum on the August 31st cartoon is the one you're avoiding.
No One of Consequence,
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, India was being run directly by the crown by the 20th century. The East India Tea Company had fucked the situation up so badly that it lost its empirical charter. Right?
Grouchy, you're making it too easy for me to quit now:
You're lucky your employer doesn't force you to take drug tests. It's all the rage here in the U.S.
Our fledgling democracy has lots of defects, but that's one thing I doubt will ever come to pass here. The "war on drugs" interests own the US government, and they will make this kind of thing ever more viable, if not outright mandatory.
And I guess they also don't tell you what time you have to come in, and how long you have to stay. Here again, that's common in the U.S.
They don't. I telecommute, most of the times, and so do most of my gringo colleagues. Of course we don't work for Wal-Mart, but hey, store clerks have to keep hours even in a mom-and-pop operation. What kind of example is that?
But you, I guess, are free to structure your time any way you like as long as you stay productive.
Pretty much yeah, but there's this little thing called a sales target, which makes the salespeople demand a lot of my time. This is not a charity, what we're talking about.
And I guess you have complete freedom to do your job anyway you see fit as long as the results are good--no stupid bureaucratic hoops to jump through.
Lots of them. Many of them to keep the company compliant with regulations made by the American government. For instance, if I devise a product locally and we try to sell it to a Cuban or Syrian customer, the company will be exposed to penalties by Uncle Sam, for exports regulation violations, despite the fact that the Brazilian government doesn't participate in any boycott against said nations.
Again, why does that make my employer a totalitarian entity? If anything, the US government is the totalitarian bully here.
And your employer doesn't monitor your workspace with video cameras or read your emails...
There are cameras on the entrance lobbies and elevators. Like in most places here, for security purposes. I'm talking about a country where burglars broke into the building and robbed an ATM placed inside it.
I doubt anyone reads my email as a matter of corporate policy. Low-life punks that the press wrongly calls hackers, maybe. I don't police my corporate emails, though.
You've got a great job, I'd say. I'd also say that if what I described above is your situation, you're enjoying a rare corporate work climate.
Not in my field (IT), I'd say. YMMV, but I think you might do with a little less Chomsky reading (a guy who never experienced life in a "corporation") and a little more talking to people who have real jobs.
But enough of this. The forum on the August 31st cartoon is the one you're avoiding.
Sorry, wrong again.
"Empirical" should have been "Imperial."
I think you might do with a little less Chomsky reading (a guy who never experienced life in a "corporation") and a little more talking to people who have real jobs.
Ad hominem attacks aside, I have a real job. And I've worked for corporations, as have members of my family and friends.
Everything I've describe is common in the corp. world.
"Describe" should have been past tense.
I don't know why my previous comment came out as "anonymous", maybe we're stressing the limits of Blogger.
That was not "ad hominem" (you're not Chomsky) and it wasn't an attack. I doubt that even your acquaintances who are unfortunate enough to work in a shitty job are able to come up with examples of "totalitarian" behavior by their employers. Totalitarian means getting arrested in the middle of the night, no warrants needed, while your next-door neighbors sigh in relief it wasn't their turn, this time at least.
Getting fired without cause is only similar to this metaphorically speaking.
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